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Krozam
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Banker
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PostSubject: Re: PK New Era Discussion   PK New Era Discussion - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 06, 2014 12:21 pm

Here's one consequence of that one thing: Sergio, now living inside the costume, is gonna have to be stored inside a closet or something since there's now no way to power up the costume once it runs out of juice.

Enjoy having that dust piled up on ya, Sergio!

Unless the writers fucking forget about that detail...

Now let's see Century again already. And hope that place doesn't have a big red button.
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PostSubject: Re: PK New Era Discussion   PK New Era Discussion - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 06, 2014 3:19 pm

Lyla wrote:
I'm still confused about the time thing. We've clearly seen everything being completely different in the future during PKNA, PK himself keeps saying "I knew that as that", "It wasn't like this", "what the fuck is wrong with this and that", etc.
So, yeah, what? flower 

I guess what donald57 wrote:
Quote :
So if I understood correctly: During Pk², Grrrodon builds his army. A long time after Pk², Donald is killed. The Raider prevents that and transports Donald to an Evronian cruiser, thus beginning the story. After some battles, the Avenger defeats Grrrodon. Grrrodon survives though and is ultimately defeated by a younger Avenger (in PKNA#5).

I found other nerd theories and time travel paradoxes on the papersera forum, but imo they're overthinking it XP http://www.papersera.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1401803948/1170
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PostSubject: Re: PK New Era Discussion   PK New Era Discussion - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 06, 2014 5:09 pm

Time travel's always been mindboggling in this series, in that you may think about it for a while and come to the conclusion that nothing makes sense. This issue is no exception. The biggest question should be how this future of the Evronian takeover of Earth only now comes to pass when the events in the past/present appeared to play out naturally, and there wasn't really anything regarding knowledge of the future which altered how it all played out.

Was Donald actually all the time supposed to stop this uprising and all the time travel he ends up going through somehow changes him enough to not have that happen? Then again, should all that stuff really have happened once microcontraction hit, which would cause time travel in the past also to not work? Or maybe all that did happen anyway because microcontraction gets fixed in the future in the timeline that only happens now for some reason... does that mean that this phenomenon could potentially go through an ending time travel and getting time travel back into order?

Well Donald apparently remembers everything when it comes traveling through time, even the stuff that never now happened due to these events that seemed to be happening in the present anyways and would result in the bleak future. It's been shown earlier that changing history will change the people themselves and their experiences and thus they wouldn't notice any difference. Of course, that was about changing the past, and this here's the future being different. Actually, thinking back to PKNA #12, it was stated that those who travel in time preserve the memory of alterations. I'll quote that of my own translation.

Spoiler:

Alright, so him remembering the future he's visited before makes sense. But it still doesn't make any fucking sense how the future of the Evronians hasn't always been around, unless that theory about Grrodon traveling back in time to set these things up is true. Of course, depending on how this series wants time to work, everything should then have changed immediately if he did go back right after the events in PKNA #5...

By the way, is there a limit to how far the future goes? Did the creation of the bubble of ultimate destruction only then occur at the very end of how far the set timeline had gotten, and that's why that anomaly didn't occur earlier? Why did the Organization detect it at that specific time when we saw them detect it? Was it because they had only just then gotten the technology to discover these bubbles that will wipe out all time, and then one second later they pick up on it? No wonder Vostok shat his pants. And how come they can travel to the year 2448 when it's supposed-- Oh wait, I've been talking about a different story altogether.

Fuck, okay. So now that the future has been like this, where Odin never manufactured droids, does that mean Lyla was never currently built? Is that why we didn't see her in this story? Is that why she disappeared after PK2 #12, because the timeline was starting to change? I'd be fucking shocked if they planned this way back then and took the necessary precautions to set this new story up.

How much does exactly the events in this current timeline affect time as a whole? Very early on the one Donald lives in became a separate timeline that shouldn't even exist to begin with, meaning there could be different versions of the present out there. Could the bad future and the good future both have been in existence at the same time, just in separate universes? Were the people from the bad future just trying to fix their own problems and Donald's timeline may not have been leading to their destiny?

This comic is trying to make me think too much. My brain is hurting.

Pro tip: Don't try to make sense out of it. It makes none.
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ankokudaishogun




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PostSubject: Re: PK New Era Discussion   PK New Era Discussion - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 07, 2014 7:25 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY_Ry8J_jdw
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PostSubject: Re: PK New Era Discussion   PK New Era Discussion - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 07, 2014 3:44 pm

Quote :
First: why in hell aren't the prisoners coolflamed? Yeah probably some other poetic stuff going on, like, everything is thought so that PK can actually interact with them and you reader can feel something in particular from their dialogues. I'm glad about that, but I still... meh. That still looks weird doesn't it?
I've just found a series of Q&A to Artibain e Pastrovicchio from "la tana del sollazzo", that's your question
Quote :
LBreda:Ma i coolflame? Nel senso, perché usare schiavi isolani rompiscatole senza coolflamizzarli? Si vuole evitare che Fairfax si senta sotto scacco più che collaboratore?
Artibani: Gli umani al lavoro nel cantiere del motore gravitazionale sono tenuti sotto controllo dai poteri mentali dei Trauma clonati. Per quel tipo di lavoro evidentemente Grrodon ha preferito avere degli umani reattivi e presenti (seppure soggiogati) piuttosto che degli esseri un po’ amorfi come i coolflames (in altre parole servivano prigionieri “specializzati” e i coolflames non lo sarebbero stati abbastanza).

here are parts 1 and 2 http://www.ilsollazzo.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=3496&start=120
part 3 http://www.ilsollazzo.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=3496&p=55895#p55895
part 4 http://www.ilsollazzo.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=3496&p=56157#p56157

sorry but they're really too long to translate xP



Banker wrote:
Pro tip: Don't try to make sense out of it. It makes none.
I should have read this line sooner Shocked
Anyway yeah, I don't think you can write a time travel-based story without paradoxes... we must accept it for what it is.  Anyway just a couple of observations:

Quote :
By the way, is there a limit to how far the future goes? Did the creation of the bubble of ultimate destruction only then occur at the very end of how far the set timeline had gotten, and that's why that anomaly didn't occur earlier? Why did the Organization detect it at that specific time when we saw them detect it? Was it because they had only just then gotten the technology to discover these bubbles that will wipe out all time, and then one second later they pick up on it?
I don't remember the microcontraction happened because it was the end of timeline.... It happened because too many time travels were stretching the timeline, right?
Also I remember something like THE TIME itself did that, to stop those puny humans... but my memories are quite rusty I'm afraid.
And googling around I've just found the dossier pk2 n.5 ( http://digilander.libero.it/pkdoppiozero/pkxtreme/pk/rece/02005c.html ), an Odin Eidolon diary: he starts to think it was made on purpose (but doesn't understand why exactly).


Quote :
So now that the future has been like this, where Odin never manufactured droids, does that mean Lyla was never currently built? Is that why we didn't see her in this story? Is that why she disappeared after PK2 #12, because the timeline was starting to change? I'd be fucking shocked if they planned this way back then and took the necessary precautions to set this new story up.
Well you know PK2 was supposed to last much much longer; suddenly they had to hurry for an ending, and they had to cut many storylines.  I guess they kept Everett and Corona and decided to cut Lyla and microcontraction.
I wouldn't be surprised if they're using now the old plans (of course merged with new stories and attention for new readers).
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PostSubject: Re: PK New Era Discussion   PK New Era Discussion - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 07, 2014 4:36 pm

My comment on how far the timeline goes wasn't related to microcontraction, I was talking about the events of "Carpe Diem". Also, I wasn't being serious about Lyla's absence.

Just saying.
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ankokudaishogun




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PostSubject: Re: PK New Era Discussion   PK New Era Discussion - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 07, 2014 7:54 pm

Gianan wrote:

Quote :
LBreda:Ma i coolflame? Nel senso, perché usare schiavi isolani rompiscatole senza coolflamizzarli? Si vuole evitare che Fairfax si senta sotto scacco più che collaboratore?
Artibani: Gli umani al lavoro nel cantiere del motore gravitazionale sono tenuti sotto controllo dai poteri mentali dei Trauma clonati. Per quel tipo di lavoro evidentemente Grrodon ha preferito avere degli umani reattivi e presenti (seppure soggiogati) piuttosto che degli esseri un po’ amorfi come i coolflames (in altre parole servivano prigionieri “specializzati” e i coolflames non lo sarebbero stati abbastanza).

Fast Translate:
Artibani: The humans working at the gravity engine were keep under control by the mindpowers of the Trauma-clones. For that kind of job, Grridon preferred to use more reactive humans than the apathetic and a little slow like the coolflames


this makes sense, we know there were "menial" jobs done by Evronians and not coolflames: evidently, the reduced brain activity causes them to be unfit for job needing somehow fast reactions
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PostSubject: Re: PK New Era Discussion   PK New Era Discussion - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 08, 2014 3:01 pm

Speaking of time travel and all, does anyone know who the traveler who appears in the audience in PKNA34 - Nothing Personal on page 45 is. I don't think it's Newton...looks more like an old pissed off Urk.
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PostSubject: Re: PK New Era Discussion   PK New Era Discussion - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 08, 2014 5:11 pm

BubbleDaff wrote:
Speaking of time travel and all, does anyone know who the traveler who appears in the audience in PKNA34 - Nothing Personal on page 45 is. I don't think it's Newton...looks more like an old pissed off Urk.

The Griffon. He quickly "teleported" away while putting on a disguise. Yeah, it's not too well depicted in the pages.
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PostSubject: Re: PK New Era Discussion   PK New Era Discussion - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 08, 2014 7:26 pm

It can't be the Griffin, wrong beak type
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PostSubject: Re: PK New Era Discussion   PK New Era Discussion - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 08, 2014 7:44 pm

BubbleDaff wrote:
It can't be the Griffin, wrong beak type

Didn't stop the Raider from transforming into Angus Fangus.
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PostSubject: Re: PK New Era Discussion   PK New Era Discussion - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 08, 2014 7:46 pm

Gotta remember he has futuristic devices which are the best, and they wouldn't just add in some random Organization guy at the moment too, so it HAS to be Griffon.
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PostSubject: Re: PK New Era Discussion   PK New Era Discussion - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 08, 2014 8:23 pm

That is true
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PostSubject: Re: PK New Era Discussion   PK New Era Discussion - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeSat Feb 21, 2015 10:44 am

*clears off the dust from this thread*

I just recently got around to finally read "might and power", because I decided to re-read the entire series beforehand, to refresh my memories. God, that took me some time...

First of all, many, many thanks to Banker for the translation (and to Lyla for providing the rough draft?), much appreciated.

Now to the story itself, obviously I liked it. I enjoyed that they picked up many loose ends - most of all Farady, I was wondering what happened to her since "Invasion", especially since her return was teased from the start. It was very.... mature, and I don't just mean "dark" by that. It felt as if these releally are grown characters and not just some sort of stand-in for the kid-audience. I never minded kid-friendly stories in media (Comics, TV, games, etc), but it would have seriously detracted from the story in this case.

The new art style is are gorgeous, I had to force myself repeatedly to stay on each page in order to soak in all the details in each panel before moving on. Which, on the other hand, is also a testament to the story itself.

Now the story is good, but it mostly builds on fan service. I think newer readers will have more of an "WTF?"-experience than "Awesome!". It's fitting that they keep the avenger in the dark for most of the time, which keeps the readers speculating and also makes them identify with Donald/PK, since both are on the same page (meaning both are left out of the loop). As far as I'm concerned, they could have even left out the epilogue entirely, since the appearance of Odin Eidolon already showed that One still exists in one form or another. On a side note, I think it's funny that the augmented warriors look just like the super-evronians from "Portrait of the young hero", since this emplies that Grrodon thought of the design centuries in advance and it was actually his idea that was used in the VR-show rather than Stuyvesant's.

Plot-wise, the story has... issues. A lot of them were already mentioned, especially regarding the time travel. It was already asked why the Raider retains his memories. Personally I think that they went back to time 0 (maybe not even knowing it exists) as soon as they could timetravel again, and found records of the original timeline (or even some memory-altering device) in temporal suspension. That's also why the Raider returns in the end, as he is fully aware that he has a son for whom he needs to restore the timeline (and probably just wanted to have some fun in the past befor risking his life and probably never returning). Being able to time travel, even if PK died on his own, he could just jump to that specific point, which is probably what would have happened without the Raiders intervention. All in all this really is more of a plot-hole than an actualy inconsistency.

Another thing was how this timeline could happen in the first place, since Grrodon's fate was already written in stone in the original continuity. Well, the only explanation for this is the decomissioning of One, since this is the only time-alteration that happened in PK2. With One gone and Everett not reactivating him after his departure, nobody was there to detect the growing Evron army. (Seriously. Nobody. Fuck Lyo's "Ultramodern" computer.) So basically everett screwed up royally when he returned to Duckburgh. (Which we already knew, but now he did so even more.) The interesting question is: Why wasn't this aleady in the original timeline from PKNA? Why did he stay for centuries in Dhasam-bul during the first version of the events and why did he suddenly choose otherwise? I have always felt like there is a story missing right before PKNA#49/50, where the "time lord" from issue #43 intervened in some events to prevent the future time police from countering the microcontractions. Maybe there never even was a Korinna and Juniper in the original timeline. This would explain a shitload of other plotholes connected to time travel.

Now the only thing that really, really boggles me is how they actually dealt with the microcontractions. The shift in position of the earth resolved the issue? Are you kidding me? How does this even work for a phenomenon that stretches across time? Does this mean that it was/is a localized problem? That time travel on earth was impossible but it would have been possible on, say, New Xerba or Corona? If so, why didn't they just leave the solar system, jumped through time, then returned in the past? Come to think of it: Does future earth even have space-flight capabilities and if not - why? Even today, we have space probes at the edge of our solar system, some centuries in the future, they should already have arrived in other systems. One of them must have reported back that there's an abundance of tachyons at Proxima Centauri. And following that logic, the earth is still in orbit in the past. So the Raider should have been able to travel back in time, but not return or continue further.

It's a shame that this was given so little thought, it feels like they went with the first idea they had and decided to shoehorn it in anyway. It's really a rather large oversight in an otherwise excellent story, but still, I can't wait to see more.

TL;DR: Well fuck, I always start out trying to keep my thoughts short but it gets longer and longer the more I get into writing...
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PostSubject: Re: PK New Era Discussion   PK New Era Discussion - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeSat Feb 21, 2015 7:10 pm

shifting Earth=altering gravitational balance. Everybody knows time and gravity are connected.
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PostSubject: Re: PK New Era Discussion   PK New Era Discussion - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 22, 2015 3:08 am

What a coincidence, I just randomly re-read Might&Power today. Can't wait for the next one. Maybe I should re-read the whole series from the start, too...
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PostSubject: Re: PK New Era Discussion   PK New Era Discussion - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 22, 2015 8:29 am

ankokudaishogun wrote:
shifting Earth=altering gravitational balance. Everybody knows time and gravity are connected.

Well, first of all: Technically no. Space and Time are connected, Gravity is just a force that operates on both of them. It's the mass of the objects that bends time, and while you can't have gravity without mass, you technically could have mass without gravity.

But more importantly, the way it was explained in PKNA#43 is that they lost the ability to transform electrons into tachyons. Gravity cannot transform particles into another, so we have to assume that this is done via weak force. (Would also make more sense to have this effect as the weak force, regardless of name, is 10^42 times stronger than gravity.)

But let's assume for the sake of argument that you're right and this is caused by the gravitational pull on earth. This still doesn't change the problem: Any place in the universe with a different gravitational equilibrium should have been able to time travel and since the earth of the past still has this same position and therefore gravitational balance, it should be impossible for the raider to return.

FYI, I'm currently doing my PhD in astroparticle physics.
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PostSubject: Re: PK New Era Discussion   PK New Era Discussion - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeSat Feb 28, 2015 6:14 pm

Actually, I was simply sarcastic, but interesting read.

Of course, the Microcontraction suffers of the same problem as always: different times being used as moving "parallel" each other.
Then again, I think time-travel works well only when used as either "everything causes parallel universes"(cfr. Marvel multiverse) or "everything retcons everything"(cfr. Lanfranco Fabriani's "Lungo i vicoli del tempo")
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PostSubject: Re: PK New Era Discussion   PK New Era Discussion - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeFri Mar 13, 2015 9:00 pm

I'm just surprised nobody's made a better forum by now.
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PostSubject: Re: PK New Era Discussion   PK New Era Discussion - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 15, 2015 2:32 pm

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10352296_1105238919502103_8519826909876630543_n.jpg?oh=47e66ac593eeb2b5695485467aaedb2c&oe=5578D91C&__gda__=1435081763_d4c102303512ed2a67144cd77483719b

Claudio is not going easy on the fanservice.
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PostSubject: Re: PK New Era Discussion   PK New Era Discussion - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 15, 2015 4:32 pm

GOD BLESS MISTER SCIARRONE.

Did we get a specific release date other than Spring?
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PostSubject: Re: PK New Era Discussion   PK New Era Discussion - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 15, 2015 5:21 pm

Well, it says "Topolino 3102", so it can be calculated.
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PostSubject: Re: PK New Era Discussion   PK New Era Discussion - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 15, 2015 6:00 pm

We're only on 3094 this month

This calls for a childish tantrum on my part
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PostSubject: Re: PK New Era Discussion   PK New Era Discussion - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 16, 2015 5:53 am

So, what, 1.5 months to wait?
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PostSubject: Re: PK New Era Discussion   PK New Era Discussion - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 16, 2015 10:52 am

Since it says "maggio" I assume it's being released in may?
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